 |
 |
About the Partial Rapture view. Among those who hold this view there are some Pentecostals. They usually quote Luke 21:36 to say that only the most faithful believers ( only those who watch and pray constantly) will be taken in the rapture. And that some believers will be left behind because they weren’t worthy enough.
How do you interpret 1 Thess 4:16. Do your organization believe this to be the “rapture”?
In Joel 2:31 and also the verse in Matthew 24:29 is says that the tribulation will be directly before the wrath. The person we are talking to says that the rapture is going to happen simultaneously with the second coming of Christ to earth...which I have no idea how Jesus can return in ch. 7 after the cosmic things happen...there is so much more.
What verse in the Bible says the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation?
Answer: There is no scripture that specifically states the rapture will occur before the Tribulation. However, there is Scripture that places the rapture before the Tribulation and states that believers in the Church Age will not go through the seven year period before Christ's Second Coming.
- "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Revelation 3:10)
This was addressed by the Lord Jesus to church at Philadelphia in Asia Minor. This church represents the church that exists before the Tribulation and clearly refers to our present age. God says He will keep us from the hour of temptation that comes on the whole world. This is of course a reference to the Tribulation and the coming Antichrist who deceive most of the world in that seven years.
1 Thessalonians 5 also is addressed to believers in this the Church age and clearly states in verse 9 that "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Thessalonians 5:9)
Those who teach falsely the rapture occurs in the Tribulation discount these verses and twist them and deny that they refer Christians in this the Church Age not going through the Tribulation. The Severn year Tribulation is when God will once again begin to work with the nation of Israel. In Revelation 4:1-19.1 which describes the events of the Tribulation you do not find the institution of the church mentioned even once. They are not present on the earth during this time, but Raptured at the beginning of the Tribulation and then return with Christ at the Second coming.
There is a great deal of false teaching and people writing articles who are not well versed in God's word. I have several articles on my web site that address the issue and will help you better understand the what the New Testament teaches:
- Fatal Flaws in the Modern Pre-Wrath Rapture Position
- Is the Mid-Tribulational or the Pre-Wrath Rapture View Biblical?
- The Mystery Of The Rapture Of The Body Of Christ At The End Of The Church Age
Answer: It is a position of the Pre-Wrath, Mid and Post Tribulation view that the Seal judgments are not part of God's wrath.
However, I find it hard to believe that anyone would not understand the Seal Judgments as not coming from God and being part of the threefold judgments He brings on the earth(Seals, Trumpets, and Vials). My question is simply this....."Who does Revelation 6:1 states opens the Seals?"
-
"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see." (Revelation 6:1)
Sir, who is the LAMB? Does not the LAMB open the first seal? How then can anyone state that the Seal judgments which begin the Seven Year Tribulation are not the work and judgment of God? Wouldn't it be great if these self appointed "Bible Scholars" simply READ THE BOOK!"
Answer: There is a lot of confusion about the coming rapture, tribulation, second coming, millennium and the new heavens and earth. It is not complicated as people make it and the problem is that many try to interpret these events without understanding the whole picture of what is future to us. The popular Pre-wrath view is an example of a false view that was born out of ignorance and not understanding the whole picture.
1 Thess. 4:13-15 is referring to the rapture which is a part of Jesus' second coming. He comes first before the Tribulation (Daniel's 70th Week) to take believers of this age to heaven, but he does not actually come to earth. "we meet him in the air". The rapture is the resurrection of Christians from this present time called the Church Age, The Church Age began in Acts 2 when God instituted the local church and will continue until the rapture. His return at the end of the Tribulation is His Second Coming when He purges the earth of sinners and then sets up His promise Kingdom to the Jews.
Daniel prophesied that there would be 490 years before the Messiah would come and set up God's promised kingdom to Israel and they would live in peace. (Dan. 9:24-27; Ezek. 36:24-26) Clearly from history it can be seen that 483 years of the 490 have occurred. There then remains one more week or a period of seven years before the Old Testament dispensation is fulfilled. The seven year Tribulation or Daniel's 70th Week is the end of the Old Testament period of God working with the nation of Israel. During the Tribulation God will begin once again to work with Israel as a nation. He begins with calling 144,000 Jews as Revelation 7 predicts. God has made specific and unconditional promises to Israel that will be fulfilled in the Millennium which follows the Tribulation. He begins at the beginning of the seven years to purify Israel and save the remnant who will constitution the nation of Israel in the Millennium. Thus Christians in this the Church Age are not in view in the Tribulation and are not a part of this period. This is why the Lord comes first for Christians and removed them from the earth before the seven years of judgment. Christians are the bride of Christ and one must understand that in seeking sound doctrine and a proper interpretation of God's word the nation of Israel and the Christians of this age must be kept separate as they do not have the same position or place in the future events and plans of God.
2 Peter 3:10 refers to the final judgment of Rev. 20:11-15 and the events of Rev. 21-22, which follow the end of the Millennium, when God will destroy by fire the present earth and makes a new heaven and earth. (Rev. 20:7-10) At the second coming, at the end of the Seven year Tribulation the heavens and earth are not destroyed, only the unsaved are taken off the earth and placed in Hades to await the final judgment.
1 Thess. 5:3 is referring to the coming Tribulation or Jacob's sorrow. At the beginning of the Tribulation the Antichrist will come to power offering peace and safety to the world. He will make a covenant with Israel to protect her, but in the middle of the Tribulation he will reveal his truth self, be possessed by Satan and being to persecute believers who are saved after the rapture. He will come deceiving most of the world who seek for peace, but reject God's peace.
The rapture will come unexpected. It is like it was in Noah's day. He preached righteousness for 120 years, but the people rejected his message from the Lord. But then the rain began and it was too late for them. Christ is being preached now, but most people still reject the Lord's mercy and grace. People at the time of the rapture will be living their normal lives and suddenly will find themselves in the midst of the judgments of God and "left behind."
The battles (plural) which happen at Megiddo (Jezreel Valley) end with the Second Coming. Armies from the east (China, etc) will cross the Euphrates river and attack Israel and the armies of the Antichrist. It is actually a series of battles....which end with Christ's sudden Second Coming in which he destroys all these armies. As they see the Lord coming in the air the armies turn from fight among themselves, to attack the Lord and He destroys them all and only believers Jews and Gentiles are left on earth.
There are many events involved in the end times. The key to properly understanding them is to understand that the Tribulation is God beginning once again to work with the nation of Israel and also people on the earth. He in this present dispensation (church age)is work with the Gentiles and not with Israel as a nation. The next prophetic event in history will be the rapture. At the end of the seven year Tribulation the Lord will give Israel the land He promised them and He will rule the world for thousand years (millennium) on the throne of David and Israel will be the dominate nation on earth.
Answer: I have been getting many questions for about five years about the Pre-Wrath position and wrote the article at https://bible-truth.org/Pre-Wrath.html "Fatal Flaws in the Modern Pre-Wrath Rapture".
The movement is becoming widely accepted as you probably have recognized and it is changing. At first their position was a Mid-Trib rapture but now many are putting the rapture at the Second Coming.
The key is their misunderstanding of the Day of the Lord and the surrounding events. Basically their main error is not accepting that God has a different plan for Israel than for those in this the Church Age. They do not make any distinction between Israel and the Church Age. Further they see the Church Age saints in Matthew 24-25 as you mentioned. I have an article at https://bible-truth.org/OlivetDiscourse.html "Are Church Age Saints in the Olivet Discourse?" which addresses the error being taught that Church Age saints are in this discourse.
I am working on an article that addresses the what the "Day of the Lord" in Scripture means. Many see the phrase Day of the Lord as referring only to one day, that is the Second Coming. However, the phrase is a general term that refers to God bringing about some event or actions He has planned and has informed us of. The phrase most often refer to God bringing his wrath or judgment on Israel or the world in general. So it does refer to the Second Coming, but also to the whole of the Tribulation period of seven years.
The Pre-Wrath position is confusing because they on one hand say that Christians will not go through God's wrath, and place the rapture in the middle of the Tribulation with the beginning of the Trumpet Judgments. They do not accept that the Seal Judgments are the pouring out of God's wrath. But Jesus clearly is the one who opens the Seals and brings the Seal Judgments on the earth. My article deals with this. 1 Thessalaonians 5:9 plainly states that Church Age believers will not go through God's wrath that is coming to the earth. 1 Thessalonians 4:18 presents the truth of God delivering Christians at the rapture is given to comfort them. There can be no comfort in believing that God is going to allow those living during the last days, who are His precious Bride, to go through seven years of God pouring out His judgments on the earth and that most of the believers living during that period will be murdered by having their heads cut off.(Rev. 7:9, 20:4)
However, others of that persuasion teach the day of the Lord refers only to the Second Coming and place the rapture then.
The fatal mistake these people make is that they do no see that the seven year Tribulation is the last seven years of the Old Testament period. Presently we are in the dispensation of the Church Age and the last week of the Old Testament dispensation of 490 years is not complete. Note Daniel said it would be 490 years till the Messiah would come and establish Israel's promised kingdom. (Dan. 9:24) Daniel said that in 483 years from the giving of the decree to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem the Messiah would be but off. (Dan. 9:16) We know Christ was crucified and died in the 483 year and God began the present Church Age at Pentecost (Acts 2). There remains one week to go, which is the seven years of the Tribulation, until Christ begins about His Kingdom which is the Millennial Age.(Rev. 20:4)
Since Pentecost God's prophetic clock is stopped and we are in a interval where God is working with the Gentiles. When this dispensation (church age interval) is complete, God will once again offer the kingdom to Israel (and Gentiles too) in the seven year Tribulation. Revelation 4 to 19 describes the events of the Tribulation.
Never does God say that Christ's bride the present Church Age saints will have to go through this seven years. God will take out those of His bride who are living at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation. The Tribulation is God's finishing the Old Testament period which ends with His final return at the end of the seven years. He then after 50 years will set up the Millennial Kingdom He promised to Israel. Christian of this age will be a part of the Millennial period and rule with Him in our new resurrected bodies. At the beginning of the Millennium, Israel (saved Jews who are alive at the end of the Tribulation and go into the Kingdom) will be invited to the marriage suffer of the Lamb.
You mention Joel 2:31, where it states that the Day of the Lord will be followed by signs in the sky as in Revelation 6 where the elements are judged. Rev. 6 is dealing with the first of the three set of God's judgment, the Seal Judgments that occur during the first half of the seven years of the Tribulation. Thus the reference is in Joel may be to Rev. 6. If so then this occurs in the first 3 1/2 years of the seven years of the Tribulation and not to the Second Coming.
Answer: Paul wrote this 2000 years ago. The Thessalonians were being taught the rapture had already occurred. Verse 1 says what Paul is addressing: First is the Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation. And second is "...our gathering" which means believers in this dispensation, meaning the rapture of Christians. Note Paul said "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1) This is a reference to two events.
Verse 2. What is amazing to me is that this passage is used to deceive when clearly it was given to dispel false teaching. The Pre-Wrath view denies the imminent return of Christ. First 2 plainly states the "day of Christ is at hand." "At hand" means imminent. In other words "the day of Christ" meaning His return was presented at imminent in Paul's day. It could happen at any moment.
Verses 3-4. Paul warns to not allow ours selves to be deceived. He then states two things that must happen before the Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation....not the rapture. The falling away and the Antichrist revealed clearly as verse 4 verifies as being in the Tribulation when the Antichrist sets his image in the temple and is worshiped. The order Paul presents in verse 1. is Second Coming, and then rapture. The mistake the Pre-Wrath view makes is that it interprets the Second Coming in verse 1 as the rapture, whereas Paul distinguishes between the two events. Paul says in verse 5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (2 Thessalonians 2:5)
Verses 6-9. The Holy Spirit's present restraining ministry will end and that will allow the seven years of Tribulation to begin. The Holy Spirit presently is restraining Satan and his forces, but when He stops and removes His restraining ministry the Devil will be allowed to do his evil work unrestrained.
Verses 10-12. Those that support the Antichrist will be sent a strong delusion and will believe his lies. These who rebel against God will be judged and damned because the refused to believe the truth and had please in unrighteousness.
THIS PASSAGE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE PRE-WRATH POSITION.
The parable of the ten virgins. Your conclusion is not based in scripture. First the parable was addressed to Israel which is the primary focus in the seven year Tribulation. It is not addressing Christians in this dispensation. The facts are simple. In the sequence of events of the parable the virgins (Israel) was to be prepared for the Master's return. Five we ready and five were not. Five went into the marriage supper and five were not allowed in. Please read the parable. The parable says the wise virgin were let in when the Master arrived and the five unfaithful were not allowed in AFTER the bridegroom had arrived. To use the parable as you concludes would have the Lord returning in the middle of the Tribulation. My friend...read the passage before you try to interpret its events.
What the parable is saying is that there will be faithful believers and Jews saved in the Tribulation. The saved will be alive at the end of the Tribulation and will go into the Millennial Kingdom that followed the Second Coming. At Christ's Second Coming, when He comes to earth at the end of the seven years, the good virgins (Jews) will be allowed to attend the marriage supper and become a part of the Millennial kingdom. At the Second Coming, not the rapture, the unfaithful will be condemned because they did not believe and be damned and removed from the earth at the "rapture of the lost" (Matthew 24:40-41)
The parable is addressing the seven year Tribulation and there will be millions saved during that time including the remnant of Israel that will go in there. The division in the Tribulation of two periods of 3.5 years is only to show the period of time when the Antichrist veils his true character and purpose. The whole of the seven years begins with the seal judgments at the beginning and continues to the end of the seven years.
THIS PASSAGE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE PRE-WRATH POSITION.
3. Sir, the New Testament and history shows believers have been persecuted through time. If persecution is a sign as you use it why did not the Lord return in the First Century. Where did you get this idea? Think...who told you this? It clearly shows the poor scholarship and lack of even basic understandings of God's word.
4. The events of Ezekiel 38-39 occur after the Tribulation begins. What scripture do you use to say WWIII must occur before the rapture. I thought the Pre-Wrath position is that believers will not go through the wrath?
5. ABSOLUTELY! No chance of that though, as I will be in heaven with the Lord. Call me on my cell 435 452-1716 and see if I answer or you can come to where I live and see if I am still here after the peace treaty is signed. By the way....do you understand if you do call what it means? I sure hope you are in heaven too.
We are in the last days so deception is every where and people listen with their itching ears. Yes! how true you are....the deception is that people have ignored what God's word literally says and followed false teachers such a Rosenthal, Camping, and the host of others.
Looking for the imminent return of my Lord.
Answer: Yes, we believe this is the rapture. Other scripture is 1 Corinthians 15:51-52-55. I have an article at https://bible-truth.org/myst-3.htm which explains in further detail.
Answer: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 clearly precludes any foundation for a partial rapture view. The wording is clear that Paul is talking about all believers dead and alive at the time of the Lord's return. The mistake the partial rapture people make is the fail to understand the context of Christ's statement. He was addressing Jews and was telling them of the events and situation that will occur before His Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation and before He set up the Millennial Kingdom. The present Church Age was not in view and was an unrevealed mystery at this time. He was not talking to Christians in this the Church Age. Luke 21:5-7 set the context of Christ's statements. This discourse in Luke is also found in Matthew 24-25 and in neither account is He talking about Christians in this dispensation. See https://bible-truth.org/OlivetDiscourse.html Further in 1 Corinthians 15:51 Paul say ALL will be changed (resurrected) and there is nothing in this passage either that suggests a partial rapture. If you think about it ....those who purport this false idea also believe that a person is saved by works, or are kept saved by their works, which is false doctrine. They do not understand God's salvation and teach a person can lose their salvation and no longer be a child of God. One what basis do they say a Christian would not be raptured? They preclude that a believer would not be found "worthy." No Christian is worthy and our salvation and assurance of salvation does not rest in our works. When God saves a person, all their sins are forgiven....past, present, and future, therefore we are worthy because Christ is worthy and has given (imparted) to us His righteousness. No, the view is but another false idea from Satan to try and confuse God's people and cause them doubts.